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Schematic for Tilt/trim pump for old OMC.

Franki Hi ladies and gentlemen,,

I have a small problem I thought I might enlist you help with if possible..

The manual relief on my tilt/trim pump, (its off a Evinrude 85hp 69 model..) seems to be letting fluid through even when in the lock position... I am assuming its probably an O-ring worn or something..

So, before I go tearing into this thing to find the part that needs replacing. I thought i'd ask you good people if you knew what was down there or had a schematic I could see?????

Is this a common fault on these things?

Any tips would be fantastic...

kindest regards

Franki
2002-04-21
alcan Hi Frankie
I got a schematic on the way. check your email. Sorry, I have never worked on one of these units, so I know nothing about them. Let me know if the schematic is the right one.
2002-04-21
Franki Hi Alcan,

Yes, that does look like the right schematic...

however, it doesn't seem to have the manual override on this one.. its like a wheel with a allen key in the center.. and its down the bottom of the pump unit.. (facing backwards from the boat)..

All I can assume is that some of these had the manual release, and some didn't???

Do you have the 70-72 books there?? do any of them show a manual release where the pic I just sent you indicates???

Thanks again Mr Alcan,
Might I ask where you got all these parts lists? were you a dealer? or are you a dealer? :-)

regards

Franki
2002-04-21
petryshyn Be sure the fluid is up in level. There is an o-ring on some manual valves that get sheared when removed to far out. Might allow air in unit. Try raising the leg mid-way. THen grab hold and force it up and down as hard as you can several times. Sometimes the main hydr. valve gets junk in it, and this can purge it if lucky... 2002-04-21
Franki Thanks Schematic..

I have completely replaced the oil.. the stuff that was in there looked pretty sad..

It goes up and down very well, just slowly sinks when you put it up...

I will try forcing it up and down hard tomorrow..

If I can avoid taking it apart, I'd be very happy...

When I got it, someone had wrapped wire around the manual release, holding it hard in.. stupidly enough, I decided I'd like a manual release, so I cut the wire.. (put it back again, but it made no difference for me..)

I think I will probably pull the pump down if forcing it up and down doesn't work.. replace every O-ring I find in there..

Thanks for the suggestion.

rgds

Frank
2002-04-21
alcan Hi Frankie
Got my pick and shovel, I'll see what I can dig up.
2002-04-21
Franki Thanks mate..

much appreciated...

rgds

Frank
2002-04-21
petryshyn shouldn't need to pull apart. the valves are accessable from outside on most 2002-04-21
alcan Hi Frankie
Near as I can tell, the manual let down valve started in 1974. As I only have those parts and accessories catologs on micro fitche. I don't have a way to send them yet. So I'll send you the next closest a 1976. They are pretty close. No, I am not a dealer nor have I ever been one. I got started working on outboards as a kid (along with just about everything else)as a way to make sure my older brothers would make room for me in the boat. Over the years I have bought, scrounged, traded and was given my lititure. A few years back I considered buying a professional shop. But then I would have to work. That would ruin a perfectly good hobby. By the way I have nothing but respect for the pro's. I'll bet your motor looks like a million bucks with the new paint an all. I might be a little crazy, but it seems like they run a bit better when they look good. Have fun.
2002-04-21
Franki Hi again..

Alcan, that new schematic you sent doesn't look anything like mine except for the relief valve, what we are chasing is one like the first one, with the relief valve from the second one.

Schematic, I tried to do the up and
2002-04-21
petryshyn Frank, right now this engine is a pain in the a$$, but seriously, look at the experience you are getting. You will be much wiser for it. The knowledge you gained is priceless. [Smile]

I mean it.
2002-04-21
Franki Thanks Schematic.. I agree entirely...

Its now quiet apparent that I know much more about old V4 OMC's then I ever wanted to..

I picked up this thing cheap at a place 400km from my home.. It hadn't run in 7 or more years.. kept in a
2002-04-21
petryshyn if you work on something for a living.....often the glamour and glitten are gone......it'll be just another day at the office.....

enjoy while you can, how you can.... [Smile]
2002-04-21
Hooty I'm not real sure about your leak-down problem you discribed but (according to the Evinrude maneal) some of the older 'rudes lower units were suppose to slowly drop down when in the tilt position and stop when they reached the trim position.

c/6

Hooty
2002-04-21
alcan Hi Frankie
The 1974 picture is the one you need. But I can't send that one. So I sent the 1976 picture. True, is a different unit,but the let down valve is close to the same. If you need part #s for the 74 valve, I could post them. Like Schematic says, when you don't have to do this work to eat, it can be enjoyable, sorta like golf.
2002-04-22
Franki Hi Guys..

I got my camera back today,, so I figured I'd take a photo of the tilt/trim in the hope someone recognises it.. and I put a photo of the motor in there as well, just cos I could :-)

Its covered in dirt, oil and crap from the termites in the roof, but it still looks ok :-)

Here are the photos of the tilt/trim motor.



And another:



And Finially, a photo of the outboard itself... (nearly finished... :-)



Anyway,, just thought I'd show you what all my questions were about... :-)

regards

Frank
2002-04-22
Franki opps,,

The second image should have been:



Forgot that it was case sensitive...

regards

Frank
2002-04-22
Franki Well, wish me luck people,

Today I am going to try and take the manual release knob out and see whats behind it..

It spins, but doesn't spin out.. so there must be a tab or something to hold it in place, probably against an O ring or something..

keep your fingers crossed, I'm worried that I'll take the bottom off, and a hundred tiny parts will fall off..

god I hope not.. :-)

regards

Frank
2002-04-22
Franki Hello people, I took the tilt pump apart, (this time making sure I kept the armature in the housing so as not to have to go through the brush thing again :-)

Anyway, I found that the release knob raises and lowers a pin (sort of like a single n
2002-04-24
Franki I just thought I'd add to this with another question..

Would a cut down needle roller with the same diameter work in this application? I doubt I can get a replacement OEM part anytime soon so I will have to do it the hard way and make something that would work.. but first I have to find out how long it should be...
any ideas?

regards

Frank
2002-04-24
Franki Ok Folks, I'll be honest here,

I'm posting again to pop this post back to the top in the hope that someone see's this and has an idea or suggestion for how the pin and ballbearing work, and how long the pin should be, or something I can do to
2002-04-25
Bob_VT Hello Frank, I have been reading this post and thinking about it. Considering the age of the system...is it possible that the pump and valves are fine. It could be the packing in the tilt cylinder itself that is leaking by. (Item #32)

I have a good deal of hydraulic experiance with earthmoving equipment. It would just be a guess the check the integrity of the cylinder packing.

Nice pain job.

Bob
2002-04-25
Franki Yeah, I thought about that as well, and I will be getting the ram rebuilt as well, (my girlfriends brother builds ram for mining equipment and has offered to rebuild it for free... so why not?)

However, the fact that the manual release is flakk
2002-04-25
Franki Hi everyone.,,,

After all the help I got on this one.. I thought I'd let you know how it panned out..

the tilt/trim pump was just cleaned and reassembled.. then reinstalled on the motor..

no more leaking down.. the motor stays stationary.. so all I can assume is that there was dirt stopping it from seating properly or somthing.. so the problem was the pump not the ram..

I do have one other problem though.. one of the metal hoses to the pump won't screw into the pump hard enough.. it leaks under pressure.. (slowly) I think the thread in the pump is slightly stripped..

does anyone have any tips for that one???

Still all things considered, I'm getting close to finishing this thing completely.

many thanks...

regards

frank
2002-05-10
Bob_VT You have a few choices. You can tap the hole to the nezt larger size and then install an adapter to reduce back to the original line size. This is a VERY common thing on heavy equipment hydraulics. Are you using teflon tape or sealant on the current threads? This is a good thing to try first and cheap too.

So...now that this is working you mentioned it is tilt only? and not t & t?

Bob [Smile]
2002-05-11
Franki Hi Mr Bob,

Well the old OMC mech I spoke to told me it was only tilt,, aparently the trim on these models is on the outside of the transom brackets. (not that I could see where.)

The control says tilt/trim but there is only one ram.. and it is single speed, it doesn't go slower at the bottom or anything, so I guess I will look at bennets or something, (assuming they prove themselves necessary.)

I did try the teflon tape.. it helped, but when the pressure built up, it still leaked past and I think it popped back a thread..

I don't really want to drill it out if it can be avoided.. do you think that epoxy resin on the threads would help???

regards

frank
2002-05-11
Bob_VT If the teflon did not work then try pipe dope compound. I would not use epoxy....if the pipe dope does not work I would re-tap it to a larger size. OR ?????? since you live in a "metric area" is it possible to try a metric fitting which may be a touch tighter before you re-tap it? Just an idea.

Bob
2002-05-11
Franki Hi Bob.. I suppose that I have lots of options..

I could braze it on.. but I don't think thats a good idea.. I'll see if I can find some pipe dope and if that doesn't work.. I'll see what my tapping options are..

I was hoping as usual that perhaps there was an easy answer.. no such luck..

besides, I spent so much money and time doing this thing up that I should do it properly..

I'll ask my mate that does it for a job if he can get me a larger head and if I can borrow his flange tool.

regards

Frank
2002-05-12

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